Audition Better: Picking the Right Cut

 And one, I was like, I was like, cause it's recorded and I can't take it back again. . Yeah. That's a nice thing. Now y'all alive? Yeah, we are alive. Oh, one last thing. Um, try to be about this far away from the mic. Okay. Yeah. I was too close last week. No, you were I really good. Yes, are are baby. But yeah, you can fix everything if y'all want to talk a little bit, not just, oh, the other thing too I picked up on this is, uh, like the tapping, we all do like, oh, whatever on the table is fine, but if you tap this, it goes straight to the mic.

Okay. Oh, good to know. We all did it holding. I know. I'm just gonna keep my hands down here. I, well, it's hard cause I talk with my hands. Oh, I do too. . I'm Italian. I can't, my hair, so I don't Eyes on the

keeping Kathy focused is difficult cause you're so outgoing and you wanna talk to everybody. I'm like, girl, let's talk about everything. Yeah. They gotta raid me in sometimes, so, which is a good thing. Yeah. We have found, we all have our gifts. We do. We do, they, they feel pretty complimentary. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. We're learning as we go. Yeah, totally. So we have our special guest on today. Yes, we do. And I think, oh yeah. As our producer leaves , like you, I'm out. Take, but, uh, Jordan, hello. Jordan Jones for Jordan Jones voice, uh, and many other things. Um, you wanna tell us, uh, our listeners a little bit about kind of your background?

Sure. Um, so born and raised in Lakeland. Um, and I feel like I started singing and performing when I was born, but, um, I, I didn't actually do my first show until I was in eighth grade. Uh, my parents tried to get me in sports and, um, I was just twirling in the middle of the soccer field, not really playing

Um, but um, but anyway, so did my first show in eighth grade. And. Um, I played Cinderella in Cinderella. Oh, nice. And from then on, it's been full steam ahead. So I, um, I went to high school and was in show choir and was in all of the shows. Played a lot of fun parts and went to college, got my BFA in musical theater.

And then from there I decided I, uh, you know, I wanted to go to New York and be on Broadway just like everybody, you know. Mm-hmm. . Um, but I didn't feel like I was ready yet, and I always wanted, you know, higher education and stuff. So I decided to go. Um, I. To get my masters and, uh, moved out to Oklahoma, did my masters in music and musical theater.

And then from there, uh, I, I, uh, I kind of fell in love with the directing and the vocal pedagogy side of things even more so. Well, I wouldn't say even more. So I, in addition to my love of performing and I was like, well, why can't I do all of it? ? And so I, I mean, anything to do with theater and music, I just love so much.

I was like, how can I, uh, pour myself into all these different areas? And I had a fabulous voice teacher out there who, um, was also the vocal pedagogy teacher. So I was learning how to teach voice lessons while. Also learning technique from her. And so I was getting this like double reiteration of everything that I was hearing in class in my voice lessons and about the science and everything.

And I just like totally fell in love with it. Um, and then I graduated and I was like, what, what do I do now? Where do I go from here? And um, we had in that spring that I graduated, we had these like mock, um, like agency interviews where they brought in a talent agent from the Oklahoma City area, um, to do these like mock interviews with us.

And while I was doing my mock interview, I actually got offered a job and I was like, geez, how did this was fake? How did I just get offered a job? And so, um, so I ended up going and working for this talent agency for about. Six to eight months. I can't remember how long. Um, but, so that was really cool because then I was learning the other side of the talent industry.

Mm-hmm. . So like, where my whole focus had always been voice and acting and dance. Now I was learning tv, film commercials, print shoots, modeling. I was learning all that side of the talent industry. And I was like, well, this is kind of cool. And so at that point, I was the person who was like receiving the head shots and, and the resumes.

Wow. And, uh, then, you know, submitting people for, for film and tv. And it was really cool. It was really fun. Um, but, so I did that for a while and I, but I was missing, I was missing the vocal part. I was missing, I just felt like I was supposed to be teaching voice. So I saw on Facebook, one of my friends from grad school, um, had posted that one of the local, um, performing arts centers, um, it was like a, a dance studio, but they also had like an acting and voice, um, I don't know what you call it.

Department, I guess, in their, within their dance studio, um, was looking for a voice teacher. And so I sent them an email with my, with my resume and everything, and they were like, yeah, like, we'd love to have you come on and teach some lessons. So I started, I, I was about to start to do that, and then they were like, Actually our desk managers going on maternity, let Aleve, will you work the front desk and teach voice lessons?

And I was like, sure. So I was working the front desk at this, this dance studio and teaching a couple voice lessons. And then the, the lady who taught all of the, um, younger acting classes, so all like the, the boss's husband taught the, the older kids. And this was, so this was like all the middle school to elementary, um, classes.

She was like going on maternity leave. So they were like, can you take over this acting program? And I was like, oh my gosh. Sure. So at one point I was, wait, you have a problem. You don't ever say no, no. Yeah, , you didn't already know this about her work, . So there was one point where I was working the front desk in addition to the.

The, the voice lessons, and now I'm teaching six acting classes. Wow. So I was doing that, and then eventually they found someone to take over the desk. So I was just doing the acting and the voice and I mean, I was directing six separate productions at a time. Wow. Because every one of my classes did their own show.

So there was at one point where I'm directing four separate productions of Elf Junior. Oh dear. And then two productions of this little show that I wrote for my youngest classes. So I was, I mean, that just not, I mean, you know, elf like the full version, right? Yes. The junior is just as big. They just cut a couple songs.

I mean, it's huge. And so that like, anyways, a lot, it was a lot. And I was, I, and it was just me, like, I mean the, my boss's husband, like he would help with the set and the, and the classrooms and stuff, but music blocking. I did have an assistant that helped with choreo. Um, so for the musical theater classes, not the younger kids, but, um, she assisted me for the four older.

I don't know. They're not old. They weren't old, but the older classes. Mm-hmm. . Um, but so act like the, the blocking the music, the, I was making all the props. I was doing all these things for six different shows, for six different shows at one time. Wow. And, uh, yeah. And then, you know, life things happened. My grandpa passed away and things haven't happened.

And, um, I was like, you know what? I just, I feel like I need to go home. Like I, I've lived in Oklahoma for, at that point, it was, um, I lived there for four years. So I did my two years of my masters and my two years, um, uh, teaching and at the agency and all that kinda stuff. And I was like, I, I just, I miss my parents, I miss my, I miss my family.

I just, you know, I, I wanna go home. So I moved home and then, uh, it's been nonstop since then. I started teaching voice lessons and, um, that has taken off and I'm, I'm so happy. I have the best student. But, um, so I do that and I teach voice for the local performing arts high school. I teach acting classes at our, uh, local theater.

And, um, I direct and choreograph and I just, whatever they throw at me, I just do it. I love it. . I can't get enough. So that's me. That was long winded. Explain what vocal pedagogy, is that what you said? Yes. What is that? Vocal pedagogy is like the, the how you teach voice. Okay. Um, basically the teaching behind the voice and, um, I, ours was very science based, so I mean, I even had to go and see a cadaver and like, and they were like, wow, here's a lung.

And I was like, gosh, , I'm gonna jump to the back of the club here. You know? Um, and you know, we looked at the lyrics and all the stuff in there, so it's all the science behind the vocal mechanism and how it works and how to, uh, fix vocal faults and things like that. Nice. Yes. Okay. So that's how I kind of approach my voice lessons as well is from that like, science-based, um, a lot of semi included exercises and things like that.

Okay. Right. That makes sense. I guess it's wild. I mean, so many people think just singing is just getting up. And I did. Whether you're singing in the shower or singing in the car, well, I mean, we're, we're fortunate enough, right? So Pinky is one of your students, and I know you're like loaded for bear with all vocals.

So like, first of all, I just have to say thank you for taking her because what you have done for her is like completely transformative. Um, but she comes home sometimes after having a lesson with you and she's, she's like super educated now about the voice. And I know she still has like tons more to learn, but she's telling me stuff like, you know, um, as I'm getting older, like I have this whole, like with the whole thing.

Al Team . Yes. . She. Describing it as there's this hole in her inner vocal chords or whatever, and it's like, that's, she's just never gonna sing while this is like happening. Oh, that is not true. She wasn't listening in classes that day. It creates a little breathiness in the tone, but they, it grows, you know, it closes up and they, they grow.

It's just their voice change. Just like when a male singers, or male in general, their voice changes. Mm-hmm. , the girls go through it too. Yeah. So I always discuss it with those like middle school age and early high school girls, because I, I don't want them to be alarmed. If there's a little breathiness to the top, I can hear it.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. How long does it last? Uh, it, it starts like early, you know, it's puberty. Mm-hmm. . Okay. So as, as, as they get older, it closes up. So usually by, I hear it with my high school students, usually by their junior and senior year, like you really can start to hear a difference in the maturity of their.

But yeah. Yeah, it's pretty funny. I always have to tell them, I'm like, so you have this little oval hole in your vocal chords right now, but I promise it's supposed to be there and you're not gonna die.

What? Then that's what came home. I have what I'm done. This is never gonna, I'm gonna heal. I'm never sit again. Like their voice is just very unsettled in that age. And so I'm like, well, You know, some days it's gonna work for you. Some days your voice is not gonna work for you. You're a human and your voice is changing.

And that's just how it goes. And anybody knows anything about singing, who's directing or you know, any of that, they're gonna know that's there. Mm-hmm. and they hear it. It's nothing to be worried about. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . But speaking of, there's something you're very passionate about, and we wanna learning thing more about

No. Well sometimes when Jordan knows a lot about something and she doesn't see it being done right, I can see it in you. Oh yes. So we wanna talk today about the audition cut and why is it so important to pick the right piece and how can we help others pick the right piece? Because I know I was an epic fail at our first audition.

Cut . I don't know if he remember. It's been a while ago and hundreds of kids ago, but we'd love to hear, um, your take on it. Yeah. Um, You know, your audition cut can make or break your audition. Um, it's important to, just because you like a song doesn't necessarily mean that it's right for you and your voice.

Um, I, we always say to pick a song that's in the style of the show that you're auditioning for. So if you're auditioning for, like, we're doing Rudolph right now, like, um, you can pick a Christmas song or pick a musical theater song, um, something that's gonna fit the style so that we can see you and where you would fit in this production.

Um, but also something you'd wanna pick, something that's gonna showcase you in the best way possible. So if you know that you, you struggle with a high note at the end of the cut, then maybe you pick a part in the song that's a little earlier. That you know, that you can sing solid, you know, like it's gonna be solid every time you do it.

And you're gonna feel really confident when you sing it because, oh, maybe sometimes I hit the high note, maybe sometimes I don't, you don't wanna risk it, right? This is your like 30 seconds to come in and show us what you got and be the best that you can be. So pick something that's gonna be really, really solid.

Um, and they, you know, we always say too, like, if it says 16 bars, that doesn't necessarily mean exactly 16 bars, right? . So cut it off right at the end. So we would much rather you finish a phrase than to stop in the middle of a word, right? Um, so you can go, and that's not saying go like 40 bars, but that's saying like, go 18, go 19.

If, if it's gonna complete the phrase. Um, and you, you wanna pick something too that you can, um, Relate to, I don't not relate to, but something that's obtainable emotionally for you. So I would never want a kid to come in and if, you know, an eight year old to come in and sing something from like cabaret or you know, something like that, that's a little mature.

So pick something that's obtain for your age and your ability. Um, yeah. . Yeah. That's helpful to hear because our first time, you know, I'm a rule follower most of the time, and the audition notice says, come prepared to sing 16 bars of a song. Well, 16 bars of 16 bars. So we came in and saying, I think it was how far I'll go for Moana.

Mm-hmm. , which you probably heard a gazillion times. Yeah. And stopped start at the beginning and stopped at 16, like right in the middle of something. And the music director at the time was like, well, next time, why don't you finish the phrase that we didn't know. Sometimes, uh, they'll be. Do you wanna, you know the best right here, right?

You wanna, you wanna keep going . And they'll, they'll be like, just go a little further. Get into it. You know, . But, but that's a great, uh, like that song. Yes. We hear it quite often, especially in children's theater cuz it's popular and honestly it sits in a really nice range for a young child's voice. Um, but that's a good example of like picking a cut of that song.

Like if, you know, you can't hit the, oh, I'll go at the end then do the first chorus where it's like, uh, there's no, no telling how far I'll go and starts or ends lower mm-hmm. . Because you can go in there and you can commit to that and it would be solid versus like, I think I can get that note out at the end.

I don't know. We'll see. Or you're like, straining and we're like, oh, you know, that was one of our questions. Because a lot of times with our kids, you're picking cuts toward the end of a song. But that, so you're saying a lot of times songs will build on themselves, will start in a certain range and then kind of Yeah, usually it has like a bigger ending and that's why the end typically gets picked.

But sometimes you can find cuts in other places of the song that would work just as well. Okay. Um, I mean even, um, like, uh, say you're auditioning for a specific character type and there's like a set of lyrics and like the song that you think, oh, this really applies to what that character is going through.

Or, let me, let me try to show, showcase that emotion that I know that character needs and you can pick that cut. Um, because, you know, whatever I'm trying to say makes sense. Just a strong of a so much that goes through, you know, and this is, this is, you know, just me as a director, you know, other directors might be different, but this is just, you know, just me.

And how much of it is the singing part and how much is it? I dunno if it's acting or characterization or what you would call that. Yeah, I, um, for me, um, a kid can come in and sing, but if they, if they don't show any emotion on their face, if it's totally deadpan or they're like picking up their clothes and they're fidgeting and like that, that's when they're fidgeting is distracting in an audition.

But also I, um, because we don't require, um, a monologue usually. Mm-hmm. , I mean, monologues, you, you see that more with play auditions than you do musicals at this point, because we feel like we need to see that you can story tell through a song, right? Mm-hmm. . So that's what we are as actors or storytellers, right?

So, uh, I wanna see that you're connected to the character while you're singing and, and that, that work that, you know, that shows us that you can sing and you can act at the same time. Um, so we always tell, uh, or at least I do, I tell students, um, you know, find a focal point on the wall above the director's head and find your, like, that focal point becomes your invisible scene partner.

Um, . So you, your ip, or that's what some of us call it, your invisible partner. Um, so you find that focal point and then you just send all your energy there. You tell that's where you're telling your story, and that's where you just direct your attention. Not to say that you can't, like if your character's thinking about something, they can look down, but as long as they come back to that same spot, gotcha.

Um, they should never, like, look right in your eyes. No. Is that creepy or what is it? ? Yeah. Well I've done that before. Like, sometimes they're like singing like love songs or something and you're like, you're an eight year old . Don't look at me. The look at me. It's just this kinda awkward, right. But also like, I wanna, like, when you're on stage, unless you're, you know, it's a moment where you're breaking the fourth wall.

You're not, you're not looking at the audience. Right. Your energy's out here. So it's just the same thing in an audition. Um, but I like to see expression and, and um, you know, connected to the lyrics. Like that's a big port. A portion of it is like looking at a song. Without the notes, look at it, without the notes, look at the lyrics.

What is, what is the story? What are they, what are they trying to say? What does this character want in this moment? And then you bring that out in your performance. You connect to that emotion or that, that storytelling and then bring that out. Um, cuz I, I mean, I feel like that happens all the time when you're listening to the radio and you're just like singing along to the song because it's gotta catch you, you know, rhythm or whatever, melody.

And then you, like, there's like that time that hits you and you're like, wait, what are these, like what is they, what are they saying? I mean, that happens all the time. And you're like, oh my gosh. Like now I understand what the song's about. Well, yeah, that's really important for us in a, in a show, you need to know, like, you have to be able to tell us a story.

Um, so I, I do that with my lessons and everything. I'm like, okay, let's look at what, like what, what are the, what are we saying here? Right. And how does that make you feel? You know, and like how, like how do we portray that? What are some things you can do with your body that would, you know, reflect that emotion or whatever?

And we, we break it. We break it down. But also doing your homework and like looking up the show that the song is from, knowing what's happening in the context of the show that happens right before they sing this song. What is the lead up? You know, there's like just doing your homework, you know, that kind of stuff.

Yeah. Is there, like, is, is there no-nos when you're doing that? Kind of like research, like you wanna steer clear of things, these common, you know, things when you're picking a song that you gonna sing an overdone song? Well, either that, or like, um, you know, if you're trying to pick a character and there's like,

I guess like a, like a racial difference, for example. Yeah. Like you wanna, you maybe wanna steer clear of mm-hmm. certain things. Right? Right. So is is there things like that Oh yeah. You, I mean, there's this whole like, um, thing in theater with like, knowing your type, like, um, and if this role was originally played by someone of one race, then maybe that role isn't for you.

Right. If it, you know, race matters when race matters. Um, but, uh, yeah, you, you definitely wanna pick something that is reflective of who you are as a performer. Okay. Gotcha. Yes. And stay kind of within your wheelhouse. Yes. Right? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And, and your age. I feel like that's like, that's like a huge thing.

Is like Right. You know, look, just because you really like waitress or something. Yeah. You're, you're, you're 13. You're not gonna play Jenna right now. Right. So maybe we don't sing. She used to be mine. Right, because you have, you have no life experience to pull into that. You know what I like, right? Yeahing?

You sing something more like a Million Dreams. I don't know, , I hear a Million Dreams so many times. A lot. But honestly and truthfully, it's a great audition. Cut. You know, you can find, and it, and it shows some range and stuff. So, but fix something that's a little more appropriate for your age, . And they need to be like Broadway songs.

Like don't pick like popular songs. It's a i, it depends on what you're auditioning for. Okay. So like, if you're gonna audition for something like Rock of Ages, like that's all eighties rock music, then come in with an eighties rock song to show that you can sing. Sing. Makes sense. That makes sense. That, or if you're auditioning for rent or something like that, like, or even like a nine to five come in with some country, you know, like, so you can pick something that's in the genre, but like if you're auditioning for Rudolph, you wanna stick maybe a little more from the heavy metal, a little more classic.

It's all in looking at the style of the show that you're auditioning for and picking something within that style. So, uh, like when you're picking your songs, I've noticed that when you're looking at, like, the audition calls, right? Like people saying, okay, we have open auditions for this. Mm-hmm. come prepared with whatever the criteria is.

Sometimes they say, we want a song from the show. Mm-hmm. and sometimes they don't like our local community theater very rarely want you to sing something from the show. They want you to pick something else. What's the methodology there that makes them choose one way or the other when they're doing that call out?

I think it just depends on the director. Um, like, um, there's a Into the Woods audition coming up, um, soon, locally, today, tomorrow, tomorrow, , um, which, you know, a major No-no. You know, you hear in the musical theater world does never take Sondheim a son song into an audition. Um, because it's incredibly difficult music for a accompanist to, um, read and site read on the spot.

Right. But for that audition, , they're requesting that you bring a Sondheim song because they wanna see, do we have singers and musicians who have the chops to sing Sondheim? Right. So sometimes it just depends on the, the director, um, I mean, maybe they have a limited time and they, they don't have time to do callbacks or something, so they're like, here, just sing something from the show because we aren't gonna have time to hear everybody do that.

So just sing something from the show. I mean, I don't know, it just probably depends, um, on the director and what their style is. I, I tend to like them to sing something different because I don't want them to sing a song from the show. And then that distort my vision of the show, right? Like, I, I wanna see them where I think they fit within the scope of the whole show.

Cause they would kind of tie themselves into one role where you now see them as, or whatever. Like, I think most people do that too, like where it's, um, Sing something and then you would sing from the show at the callback once the director knows, okay, I think I have these people that might could play this part and this part, and then let's hear all of them do that part and see what, how the puzzle pieces are gonna fit together.

But yeah, so yeah, don't sing song Time for an audition. , I, I didn't, one makes sense. Husband and Jason Robert Brown. They're just known to be like, I mean, they're incredible com incredible composers, but their music is really, really difficult and it's just not really fair to a pianist or an accompanist to make them site.

Read that the spot. Well, that's a good question because I've had my kids come out of an audition with just a regular song and the accompanists didn't, I probably didn't say that word right. I never can, didn't play it like they were used to rehearsing it, or they went too slow or too fast, or didn't start in the right place.

How can you avoid that? Or what can a child do or anyone do? to kind of prepare for that difference. From a soundtrack or a a, you just keep going. Okay. You just keep going. Um, the accompanist is probably site reading and trying to, maybe they've never seen the song before. They're not familiar with it.

They're trying to figure it out as they go. But it's also very important when you go into an audition, the people in the room, they know why you're there. It's not a secret, right? It you are there to try out, to be a part of the show, right? Mm-hmm. . Um, and so you walk in and have a conversation with the pianist, like, it's not a secret, you know, it's not a secret.

Can you start here and then go hear that? No, it's not a secret. Just say, Hey, this is what I'm singing, and like, obvious, I mean, be friendly with them because that also shows that you are friendly and nice to work with. Mm-hmm. , um, which always looks good in an audition. Mm-hmm. . But, um, but you can talk with them and say, you know, you know, this is where I'm gonna start.

This is where I'm gonna end. Can you, can you gimme my starting pitch? Or if you want a little intro, can you start here? You just wanna make sure your music is clearly marked. Like, this is where I'm starting and this is where I'm in. You also wanna make sure that your music, your sheet music that you take into the audition is in the same key that you rehearsed it.

Because we have that a lot where a kid will, an adult or whoever will come in and give you the music and that you start playing. Or the pianist will start playing it and then they're like, that's not how I did it. You know, and they'll say something or they'll come in and say, can you actually play this in the Kia C oh dear, or whatever, you know, whatever it is.

You have to transpose on spot. You can't, no, I mean, like the pianist I've been around have. Well, I'm gonna play what's on the page. I can't just transpose this like with my eyeballs, like right here in this moment while you have one minute in the room. That's different level. So, I mean, that's really important that you pick, you know, you get your sheet music and the same key that you've rehearsed it.

Mm-hmm. . Um, and there's, there's lots of resources for that too. You know, like, I like sheet music directs, like I go and get stuff from there. Yeah. Sheet music direct, there's sheet music, plus there's music notes.com. I use music notes a lot. But then there's also books. There's books of sheet music. I have, um, you know, the, the singers musical theater anthologies, which are great.

They have like seven volumes of each voice part. So if you know you're a soprano, just get some of those, you know, you can come 'em on Amazon, , I dunno. Um, I used to get them in college. I'd go to the. The half price bookstores where people just like donate old books and I would find them for like $4, you know?

And I'd be like, thank, that's awesome. Thank you. Here's a bunch of sheet music for me. Yeah. You know? Um, and then you just make their nice clean copies too in those books, and you can just make a copy and marker music and or take the book with you. Um, but they also have, I mean, there's like the, the Broadway for Kids books, you know, or, um, I have a Disney's Disney for a, a Teenage Girls or something like book where, I mean, you can find anything that's like, or if you really like a show, there's like anthologies that are just that show and just the music from that show.

And typically they're in the key that the original soundtrack isn't. So those are great resources too. Um, I have a whole Moana book because they all love singing Moana, you know? Um, I probably need to get an Incanto book now, right? ? That's the new one. Yeah. But, um, but just making sure it's in the same key.

And if, if you don't know, if you don't read music and you don't know if this is the same, just ask. Ask somebody, ask somebody like, Hey, can you check this and make sure, you know, if you know somebody that plays piano or can read music, like, can you just make sure this is the same key? Aren't there apps now that can like read the music and actually play the tone, like play it?

Well, I know Music Notes has that, like if you go onto music notes, you have to buy the original key, but then, and it'll play, it'll play through it for you once you buy it. But then you have the, um, ability to transpose it into whatever key that you need Oh, wow. On there. And then you can print whatever.

That's nice. Yeah, you can transpose it. Um, which is great. Like, I mean, especially if, I mean that I think really works well with, um, like pop songs or something like, oh, I don't, I don't like this key this. Or if it's a male song and you're a female wanting to sing it, transpose it, and then you're in the, the right place for your voice.

But it's just, it's very important that you come in with it in the right key. Cause if not, , that's not gonna work. And you're gonna be like all over the place scrambling. So, and actual sheet music, not like, this is just the note you're saying. I think what happens a lot is maybe people just like Google, like they get good guitar chords and they bring in guitar chords or lead sheets and, or they'll bring in like a whole, like, bunch of notes, but no words.

Well, the accompanist wants to see the words so they can follow you better. Right? So make sure the words are there mm-hmm. and make sure that it's like a nice clean copy that you're not cutting off any notes on the bottom. That you're not cutting off the key signature on the, on the left hand side, you know, because like, they gotta know what key to play it in.

Yes. That's all important. And, and they gotta be able to see all the notes, right. So if it's SMUD or if it's cut off on the bottom, like then they, you're, you're not setting yourself up for success. Yeah, that sounds like preparation is key. Mm-hmm. for sure. Um, lots of resources in the community and online for parents to help their kids or adults that are just getting into it.

Um, I know in our, maybe our first podcast that we did, we talked about, um, how important it is to reach out to a local, um, you know, vocal coach, someone that can help your child and, and help them kind of get involved in Yeah. The prepared now you are the better your audition's gonna go. Um, I forgot what I was gonna say.

I was blanked out all the time. That's okay. Yeah. Happens. Well, like our first audition was bumpy, to say the least. Um, we were fortunate enough that Pinky still got cast, but um, we had a, she was nervous about it and we had some back and forth, enough back and forth that we believed in the beginning that she.

Like she wasn't even gonna get, there was no way she was gonna get cast because we had showed, we had signed her up and showed up. We were not prepared, she was not willing to actually do it. So then we wait, like we came home and this was before we had like, like assigned slots and stuff. It was more just show up.

Yeah. Pre and, yeah, pre. So you guys showed up and she was like, I don't wanna do this. Yeah. So you went home. Oh wow. Yeah, cuz Chris had taken her and so then Chris brought her home and then we talked about it at home and I was like, I think you're gonna really regret this if you don't go. And so we, you know, talked her into going and she went, but we, we didn't know that she needed music at the time.

Like, we didn't really understand. We just, we didn't understand a lot . But like, it's your first one. I mean, it's, it's, it's a learning experience. I mean, like, I always tell the kids, you learn from every audition. You, you. You learned something new. We learned a lot. Well, she's sang happy birthday, didn't she just went in and sang Happy Birthday and obviously she sang it really well.

Yeah, she did fine. Or she had a lot of good expression and energy in the room. I mean, if that happens too, or like if a kid comes in and their music's all wrong, we'll just be like, well just sing Happy Birthday. You know, cuz it has a nice big opt, uh, ve jump. So, you know, you can hear how well they match pitch and stuff like that and can stay in the same key and everything.

And so, um, but if they sing really strong, strongly, strongly mm-hmm. strongly, strongly, if they sing really like, and confidently and they have a lot of personality and are real cute, like mm-hmm. , you know, that goes a long way. And you know, there's the dance, um, part of it too. So maybe she went in and danced really well too, and, and the choreographer saw something that they really liked.

Um, there's a lot that goes into casting besides, you know, I don't know. Just the singing. Well, there's more that he goes into it than, than the singing and the dancing. Right? Yeah. Because there's, there's how actors fit together, right? It's all first piece for a vision. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. You, I mean, you could have all the talent in the world, but you're not the right look or the right height or, you know, the right hair color.

I mean, it could be literally anything. Mm-hmm. . Um, and that's, that's how the cookie crumbles sometimes. Is it, does it hurt them if they come in and sing Happy Birthday at all? Like, I mean, I mean, I wouldn't say it necessarily hurts, but it's just preferred that you bring in the sheet music and, and prepare a piece.

Um, I mean, I cast kids in the show right now that saying happy birthday. Um, it's, it just happens. But I would prefer Sure to bring in a piece and be prepared, um, that you, and something that can be accompanied, accompanied and everything. Are there certain songs like you have heard so much you never want to hear again?

Um, You know, there's, there's this whole thing with the, the, the overdone singing, uh, sing song. I Can't Talk Today, . Oh my God, that's a good day for it. There's this whole thing with the overdone list, and to me, um, if there's a song on the overdone list that you sing really well, then sing it. You know, like, just come in and sing what you do really well.

I mean, I've heard how far I'll go. I've heard part of your world, I've heard Million Dreams so many times, but if you come in and it's solid and, and you are really expressive, like mm-hmm. , you nail it, you nail it, then you nail it. You know? I mean, like, I, people always say like, oh, don't sing on my own from Lame is, well, because on my own from LA Miss has been on the do Not Sing list for so long.

Now it's not overnight. Right. . You know what I mean? So making a comeback. If you, if you sing on my own and you nail it, like then you did a good job. You know? There I, I, I mean, I don't know, I guess there is an overdone list, but this is just my preference. I don't, I don't care if it's overdone. Yeah. Is there ever a risk to sing something that would be too obscure or, you know, like, have you ever had a kid come in and be like, and sing something and you're like, oh man, where did that even come from?

Has that ever happened? Uh, I think, yeah, it's happened, but sometimes I'm like, Ooh, what's that from, like, the sheet music? Can I borrow that pictures, scan it into your iPad? Um, but like, I mean, sometimes that happens where somebody will bring something in that I've never heard before, and I'm like, what is that?

Like, tell me about that piece. And then that, that starts a conversation, you know, like's great. You get to know the kid a little better. Yeah. Um, I mean, some, sometimes it's just not a good song choice, you know? Like they, they heard the song on the radio and they really liked it, and so they said, I'm gonna sing this song and then, Uh, yeah.

Cause you heard on the radio doesn't mean it's a good fit for you, you know? Can you see past that? Are there times where that happens, but you, like I see something in that person? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. But like, if, if they had good energy in the room and they, um, were really positive, but they, and they, they still, even though they sang a song that maybe wasn't, um, conducive for their voice, they still like, had a lot of expression and a lot of emotion.

I might, I may be like, well, let's call them back and see what else they can do. You know? But call back doesn't mean that you're casting the show call back doesn't mean that you're not casting the show. It just means the director wants to see more of you. So if they did something like that and I, I saw something there, but maybe it was the wrong song choice, I may call them back and be like, let's have them sing for this role in the show and just see what they do with it.

Mm-hmm. , you know, it just means the director wants to see more from you. At least for me, for you when I'm a director. Gotcha. What, you know how we watch these shows, like The Voice or whatever, and you hear those people who are. The director, they're, they're in that seat, so to speak. They're picking their teams or they're picking, you know, whether or not they want this person to advance.

And they, they have the comment like, oh, your voice is really unique. We've never heard something like that before. Do you ever find that you get that in these kinds of auditions? Or is that Oh, absolutely. Really? Oh, absolutely. Like somebody will come in and you're, um, I can think of a very specific moment right now where they walk in and you've never seen this person before, and they just have this voice, and you're like, who are you?

Where have you been? And like, they just have this, this quality that is so special. And you're like, why have you never been here before? You know? Yes. Yes. And like, where do you wanna take lessons? , where have you been hiding? Or, you know, like, why have you never come here before? Like, we need you. You know?

And I mean, that happens a lot. Like, whereas somebody will just come in and you're like totally blown away by them and you have no idea who they are. Yeah. Do you ever get frustrated with kids who have done this over and over and over again and it feels like, They're resting on their laurels, like they're not coming in, have their phone in it.

Right? Yeah. Like, I know I have a song in my back pocket, I'm just gonna pull it out and sing it today. And they're not really giving you something new or fresh or the energy you're looking for. Yeah, I mean, I mean, you, we see a lot of the same kids, you know, um, locally, a lot of the same kids do a lot of shows at the same theaters.

And, um, and you do, you kind of hope for their sake that they're, they're growing and they're developing and they're, you know, getting better and better all the time. But it, it can be a little like, well here they are again, you know, doing the same old, same old mm-hmm. . Um, but that, I think it's more of just like, I'm sad for you.

Like I want, I want you to work hard and, and get better. That's like the teacher I, me like, you know, work harder. Um, but yeah, it, it happens. Sure it happens. Yeah. Yeah. And they probably always feel like, oh well I'm gonna sing this cuz I sang it the last two times. It like, I don't have an issue with them singing the same material.

I mean, like, there's this whole thing, like when you go to school for musical theater, you create your audition book, right? You have your songs that like, and you have your 16 bar cut of that song marked. You have your 32 bar cut of that song mark. And you have, uh, like, at least for when, when I was in grad school, we would have our, you know, your, your uptempo golden age, your, um, ballad Golden Age.

You have your uptempo contemporary, your ballad contemporary, your pop rock song, your, uh, country song, your Italian art song or whatever. You know, you have you so that you're covered, um, in all genres of musical theater. Um, and so, I mean, I've taken the same audition songs into multiple auditions and, and you kind of create that audition book so that you have something you.

Pull out. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so, um, just because you sing it for one audition doesn't mean that you can't sing it for another audition, especially if it's a different director. I mean, like, they haven't heard you do it before, you know, or your voice has grown and you can pull that song back out and it's even better than it was the first time you did it.

You know, or, or you mature and, and you find new meaning in the lyrics or something, you know? Mm-hmm. , like, it's, it's fine to repeat songs, um, especially if it's something that you've coached with a voice teacher or with a vocal coach or whatever, or even with an acting coach to, you know, work on the emotion.

Um, it's, that's gonna set you up for a really solid audition if it's something that you've coached. And I mean, I, I have my books still, and I, when I go in and audition for shows, I like, well, we're gonna do this one today. You know, like, I'm getting this one. You know? It gives you like a nice, like, I don't know, like database that you can just Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. And you're already prepared. What advice would you give to kids? Like, we've got some kids that are getting ready to audition for the performing arts high school. Mm-hmm. . So there's not necessarily a genre they should be working toward or something like that. How should they be picking an audition?

Cut? Uh, I definitely something age appropriate for sure. Um, def the, um, something that shows their personality, because you're, you're looking at wanting to spend four years with these same teachers, you know, and they, you want them to know who you are and, and how you're gonna work in the school setting.

Um, so definitely something that showcases your personality. Um, I'm trying to think. Uh, like, like I would pick something fun or, um, just has good energy to it, you know? Uh, and some, yeah, , so maybe not like a sleepy ball. Well, I mean, like, if that's what you do best, then do that. You pick something that's gonna showcase your voice, that it, and, and your personality.

So if you have this big, huge, you know, veely, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Belty voice. Yes, belty voice. You're gonna wanna sing something that maybe gives you the opportunity that shows them song to blows out that my voice, I mean, we're working on, we're working on Pinky's audition song right now, and I was like, this song, like some of the lyrics in it, I'm like, I feel like I hear you.

Like, just say this in everyday life. You know, like, I feel like this song really showcases you and your uniqueness and, and how you are. And it just happens to like, sit in a really nice spot in her voice and I'm like, this is your song. It's something they connect to. So it feels genuine. It feels very genuine.

And because that's the whole thing, you're, you're wanting to show them who you are and that what you can bring to this program. Um, so picking something. That you sound great on, that you can connect to and really show the emotion behind it. It just, I feel like I said emotion like 400 times. Oh. But it's important.

It's important, you know it's important and you're selling it. Right. Also something like, I just can't stress the age appropriateness. Yeah, yeah. You know? Well, emotion's important because in the beginning I just thought, you're going into sing. That's, they wanna hear you sing. I didn't realize that you should be kind of acting as you go.

Oh yeah, absolutely. But not overact. Right. Not to be natural. Natural. No choreography. I don't know if you need choreography, you do that in your song or the hands and then this word and then this word and we were walking and like, you know. Yes. That's indicating . Oh my gosh. No, that's funny. And I'm sure you get kids.

Then do that sort of stuff all the time. Mm-hmm. , you know, you get your super outgoing that'll probably walk in like they own the room and you know, but that has great confidence too, you know, like that is something that can, um, with direction mm-hmm. and say, well, let's think about this, and like, maybe you don't need to do this here.

Maybe that's something you can just show with your face. Or, you know, like, do you talk like this, you know, like in real life do you vote? Like how do you, like, how would you just say this sentence in real life? Would you, I don't know. Like if I'm thinking about something I might like, you know, like, you know, I looked out, I don't know.

And like, how would, how do you do it naturally in real life? Mm-hmm. because like these, these characters in the show, like, they have to be believable as real people or animals sometimes or whatever, like, you know, and so you wanna emulate that in your audition that you can just be a normal person. Yeah.

You told me something once cuz you know, I took a lesson, a couple of lessons and I. No. Two. Two, I think. Two. Yeah. Yeah. With you. And you, you told me something that really kind of like resonated with me about how when these characters are like singing in their musical, right? Mm-hmm. , the reason why they're singing is because they were having a conversation and it just, it just naturally went into a song.

And that you have to kind of carry it that way. Like the only way they could express the way they were feeling was through that song. Right. They become too filled with emotion just to talk about it anymore. They gotta sing about it. Yes. And, and that the song is just a continuation of the dialogue, right?

Like, we're already having this conversation and now we're just gonna sing this conversation. So it's like, or I mean, even if the character is singing by themselves, like, and it is a solo and there's no one else on stage, they're still like either talking to themselves, they're talking to the audience, they're, you know, or they're, they're expressing a want for something.

There's still some kind of dialogue that's going on. Um, yeah. Yeah. It's like, , I guess just, you know, making sure that you understand that dialogue and that lead up is continuing, even though you're singing and that connection has to be maintained. We call that the, the moment before a lot in musical theater, especially if you're gonna do an audition cut, knowing that moment before of what Springs Bo springboards this character into this song, like what is happening that makes them say these words.

And sometimes you can do that. Uh, I've done it before where I will like, hear a question in my head and then boom, I'm in the, I'm in that emotion, I'm responding to the question, you know, or like, well, what do you want? Well, I, you know, hear the question in my head. I'll hear the question, and then I'm like, it's an, I'm reacting to whatever, you know, moment before whatever it is, you know, or I've done some cool, like, master classes before, like when I was in grad school, where they will, when you're coaching a song, they'll put someone else up there with you to like, for you to interact with before you start to sing.

And then they're like, go and you're like, you're like in this whole. It changes the, the, the everything about the song. Because now you have that scene partner there, Uhhuh. So then you just take the scene partner away. But imagine them there and boom, you're in it. You knows that question. That's what you're talking to and you know different parts of the song.

You may be speaking with your friend and you're trying to tell them something or give them a message. Mm-hmm. And then, okay, now you're not angry at them anymore and now you're, oops. Now you're just trying to get onto the other side of the conversation. Mm-hmm. But you know, I guess when you go in and audition, you're only doing those 16 bars to just give it and you have to tell come across flat power musical in 16 bars.

Exactly. You have to get that whole character across. And that 16 bars. Yeah. Are adult auditions typically 16 bars or do they do 32 usually? I feel like six. It just depends on the show and the director. Um, I feel like the majority of the time it's 62 or 62. Wouldn't that mean that hours? 16. 16? Um, sometimes though, like I've been to auditions, like, um, over at Disney, um, where they have like these big CATA auditions where they have hundreds of people there and they cut you down to eight bars.

Oh, wow. You get like four words out. Wow. You know? Yeah. So up next, I mean, that's what usually in that situation, they're looking for specific type, you know, a certain height or something. They're trying to fill one spot. Um, but you know, they don't tell you that beforehand. And then there's 400 people there trying to be in the Fine Nemo musical, you know, and, and you go in and sing mag bars and they're like, You're female , why didn't you just tell us?

But you know, but sometimes though, sometimes though you never know, they may like keep your headshot and resume for, you know, something else. You never know. I mean, just that exposure, you learn from it. I mean, yeah. Yeah. So what should a kid do if they get in there and they like flub a note or their voice cracks or just keep going, keep plowing through and act like nothing happened?

Yeah. Keep going. Yeah. Don't let it frazzle you show must go on. Well, and the the same thing really is like if you're in the callback, cuz you're learning a new piece from the show. Mm-hmm , um, you know, I think the director's probably in the musical director is probably hoping that you have at least listened to the music before you get in there.

Homework Yeah. Doesn't always happen. So you get in there and you're hearing this music for the first time and then you have to perform it. You do a little bit of rehearsal and then you perform. So like, their hope is that even if you do flub it and they understand that, that can happen. It might happen, probably would happen.

You just gotta, how are you going to, like, respond to that? What's your recovery look like? Yes, exactly. What's your ability, like, how believable are you? Yeah, we, you know, we just say stay in the moment. Stay in the moment. Just keep going. Um, and then like, if it really fell apart, we may ask you, like, do you wanna try that again?

You know, like, sometimes directors are nice and I always, that's like something I always tell the kids too, is like, the people in the room are on your side, right? Like, they're not sitting behind the table, like hoping that you're horrible, right? Because if you come in and you're great, that makes their job a whole lot easier, right?

Yeah. Like, like, we're looking for this character and you walk in the room and you're just like, great. They want that, right? So like that, I always tell kids when they're really nervous that, right? Like, they're on your side. They're not sitting there hoping that you're terrible. You know, like they want you to be good.

And, um, like that sometimes will calm them down a little bit, you know, to know that they're, they're your cheerleader. They want you to be great. But also like half the time they're not really even thinking about. The audition, like I'm thinking, how many more kids do we have listen to as my Jimmy John's gonna get here on Sunday?

I've heard song 20 times today, like half the time we're like, oh yeah. Like, when's our next break? I mean, like, they're not even like completely laser focused on you. No, no. Like, we're just doing our job. We're just listening to kids and, and figuring it out as we go. You know? Like we're not sitting there being like, wow, I really hope this kid is horrible today.

Yeah. . You know what I mean? I definitely don't want them in my show. I hope they can't match pitch, like, oh no, we, we wanna need to be great. At least me as a director. Right? I don't know. I don't, maybe some other directors, I mean, there are those directors that like, I mean, especially in the professional world, I've gone into some auditions where like the direct, you walk in the room, you hit your ex, you talk to the, or you talk to the music director, hit your ex and they never.

Even look up and acknowledge that you're in the room and you sing, and they just go, thank you. Never even like, so there's like no feedback. No. Like, I mean, like there's, there are directors like that out there, but, um, I don't know. I feel like every, I, I, at least for me, I'm just go, you, you came and you tried.

Good job. You know? Yep. You should be proud of yourself for even showing up. You know, it's half of the battle. Right. But they are, they, you know, nine times out 10, like, the director wants you to be good. Right. They're not saying they're hoping you're bad. Yeah. That you're gonna fail. I know when our kids go in on about y'all, but I mean, I'm like, okay, how did it go gaps?

And she's like, ISN went great. I'm like, okay. Well, they say anything. No, not, they've said I did a good job. I'm like, okay. You know, and then moves on and life is good, you know? Yeah. We also don't have time to like it. Yeah. There's no way when you have a hundred kids signed up for an audition, you, you don't have time to like, you know, talk with every single one.

Unless it's like something, like if I see something on their, uh, audition form or their resume or something where I'm like, You did this show with this person? Oh, tell me about that. You know, or like, um, or I see like, oh, you go to a certain school. Oh, my parents teach at that school. You know, so my dad, you know, you know, there's things that come up or, um, or if they have on their conflict sheet, like they're gonna be gone the whole week of Thanksgiving.

And I'm like, we're definitely gonna have rehearsals because we only have 23. Like, um, are these like, are you going. State, are you gonna be local? Like, that's on your conflict, right? Is this negotiable? You know, things like, I mean like I'll bring up some stuff like that in audition, but for the most part, like if they come in and it's great, we're like, good job, go dance.

You know, if you've already danced, go home. You know, so we don't want parents to think that just because their kids come out and there's, you know, there's not feedback. That doesn't mean that they did a bad job. Well, that's the hard part, right? Mm-hmm. , because you as a parent, you're not there for the audition.

You didn't get to see how it is. You only have your kids' feedback, which, you know, sometimes it's, yeah, I did great, or I think I did really good. Um, or sometimes it's, I sucked and I was horrible. And I've, I've seen kind of the gambit come home after an audition and not being in the room if she like didn't get cast for something, we're going, what happened?

Mm-hmm. , you know, because the general feedback that we hear is so limited. It's hard for us to get a gauge. And then how do we help? Um, our kid do better on the next one when we don't have that feedback. You know? Right. The more prepared you are, the better. Right. Like with the song and, um, I mean, and just like taking dance classes and I mean, um, you know, just immersing yourself into the theater as much as possible.

It's all good, it's all good experience. Um, but also sometimes when you don't get cast, it has nothing to do with talent. It's just like how the puzzle pieces worked out. I mean, in the director's vision, I mean, so many times it's like, well, I, we only have these boys, you know, cuz there's way more girls in musical theater than boys at this age.

You know, we have these boys and these are where these boys have to go now, where do the girls fit? You know, and, um, and who matches height-wise and things like that. Um, so there, you know, sometimes it's just, it's just that, it's just how it's, it just sometimes it has nothing to do with their talent. It has nothing to do with their, even their audition.

It just is like, , well, I know that I need this person here and this person here, and it's just how the cookie crumbles sometimes. You know, it just like, it just wasn't your turn, you know? Mm-hmm. and I had a really great, uh, a mentor and professor that, uh, would tell us, like, don't think of it as a no. Think of it as a, not now, you know, and like, this wasn't this.

You didn't like, it's not a no, it just means this wasn't your opportunity. Right. Your opportunity is down the line. You know? And then I had another who I love so much. I , I, I had gotten a really big rejection and I was really upset about it. Cause I was, I really wanted it. But he told me, he said, rejection hurts or rejection stings, but McFlurries are cheap.

that's great. So if it, you know, like feel the emotion, the emotion, but then move on, pick yourself up. You know, like have a, have a scoop of ice cream and move about your day. You know, it's just not the right time for you in that. And then you may get something that's 10 times better than what that opportunity would've been, you know?

So it just, you never know. Yeah. It's, it's hard to know. And it doesn't, it's not even a, like a religious thing necessarily. You know, the universe sometimes just puts up blockers because it's not your time. It's not your time. And we see that. We've seen that our fair share in the last couple of years in the Gillette household.

Um, but it all kind of works out the way it was meant to work out, right? Every time. You know, maybe you didn't get that role that time, but did you get it later? Right. Yeah. You don't understand it in the moment. Grad school, I didn't get into a grad school that I really was, uh, wanting to go to, and then I ended up exactly where I was supposed to be with the best voice teacher.

Like she was truly like, uh, she still is. I love her. I talk to her all the time, but she is like, Um, like was just like a godsend to my life. I mean, she changed my voice and, and made me realize how much I love vocal pedagogy and like, she is still one of my biggest supporters. And, um, uh, she's just wonderful.

I named my wig after her in Feeding the Beast.

She tell her that. Yeah. Everyone in the cast knew Barbara. Barbara, yes. But like, I love it, you know, and I ended up exactly where I was supposed to be. I was so upset about not getting into that one school. But then I got into this one and then just, she changed my whole world, you know? Um, I, I had had a pretty rough experience in undergrad and, um, and not to talk bad about That's okay.

I went to school or my teacher, it shaped you, my voice teacher there. It was not a good fit. And I, I really. Someone like the teacher that I had in Oklahoma and she just, um, changed my whole world. But you know, things work out the way they're supposed to and you can't always see it in the moment. Oh yeah.

But when you get on the other side of it and something different happens, you're like, oh, now I understand why that happens. And like you said, everything you do is a good experience, is a learning experience. Mm-hmm. , you can take something from it, positive or negative and use it to grow. Yeah. Well, yeah.

And the fact that you are now teaching means you can take that knowledge and that experience that you have. Absolutely. And just help other kids kind of work through theirs. Mm-hmm. Talk about paying it forward, right? Yeah. Barbara did this for you and now think about all of these kids. I talk about parent every lesson that I teach.

I think , I'm like, my voice teacher did this and blah, blah, blah. , does she still teach or Yeah, she's still at the college. Yeah. Nice. Well, this is how important you are in our family. Lily Kate tells me all the time that if and when she gets to the tos, you're her plus one . She's like, mom, you don't get to go.

Joan's going with me. I'm like, well that's messed up. Well, I'm, but I'm definitely, I would gladly take,

it's changed how like poverty's direction. I think she obviously would still want to perform, but. She's actually leaning more towards, I wanna teach, I wanna be like Jordan when I grew up. Yeah, I hear that a lot in her house. You right. You're changing lives. You're their mentor. Yeah. Well cause she goes to school in a, you know, a pretty musical theater, um, heavy, uh, school program.

Mm-hmm. . And so she hears a lot of these kids who don't have lessons, who don't have a vocal instructor teaching them how to protect their voice. And she's like, she'll come home sometimes in the car and she's like, oh, you know, this kid in my class. And she would even say names. It doesn't mean anything to me cuz I don't know these kids.

And she's like, oh, I just feel so bad because they're just wrecking their voice and they need to do this and this and this. But I don't feel like I can be the one to tell them. Yeah. Which is true. But it just shows that she's learning from. And kind of setting that foundation up for her to be a teacher.

Yeah, it feels like that. That made me cry. . Oh, now you're doing, doing great for kids. Speaking of making you cry, it's a little bit off the subject, but we got to see Mary Poppins last night with some of your amazing students. How does that feel to sit in the audience and watch these kids? Oh gosh, my, yeah, man.

Pride, right? Yeah. Um, Yeah, it's, uh, it's pretty amazing. I, I actually texted my student that that played Mary Poppins last night and I said, I have retyped this text message so many times because I just don't know like, how to express how I'm feeling right now. Um, you know, just a joy to sit in the theater and just, uh, to just witness their skills and their abilities and, um, it's really special.

Really, really special. Yeah. Uh, she's amazing. I have to, to her, all of them are amazing, you know, and they all are individually so special to me, each and every one of 'em. But I did, I text her and I was like, I don't, I have typed this out so many times and then backspace and retype it cuz I just don't know how to express, like, how it feels to sit there and watch your student like excel, kill it.

Like just absolutely kill it. I was like, ho when I went home last night because we were just cheering so loudly for her. Yeah. I mean, and she is so humble and just Yeah, unassuming and, uh, when you tell her she did a great job, she's like, really? Me? You know, you're like, yes. Like you are so great. And, um, I think she's gonna end up pursuing musical theater as well, so that's nice.

Yes. Oh, she should. That is, yeah. We don't need to be deprived of her. She needs to No, she needs to do that. It's clear that's her, her calling. Yeah. I know how I feel. Just watching these kids at just for the past, I guess, three or four years we've watched Grow Up. I didn't teach 'em anything, but they feel like our kids, cuz we've done so much with them, and it's so fun to watch the progression and them getting bigger roles and hearing their voices.

It's just, yeah. When they come off the stage after a performance like that and you're waiting for them, you're just like, yes, they're excited to see you too. Because they see, you know, you're not their parent, but they see another adult in their corner kind of backing 'em up, you know, and cheering 'em on and that's, you know, that's important.

Mm-hmm. like without that, these kids don't do what they do. Yeah, it's true. Ah, well she's gonna have a million doors opening for her and, um, she's already had some, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. She, uh, she went to the Jimmy's last year. Oh my gosh. That was so fun. Amazing. Talk about like a whirlwind of emotion. I was, yeah, you were.

Theres like uncontrolled, well, I don't even know, like I was a mess. I, like, we were supposed, like we had all these plans the next day to go and do in New York City and I was like, I can't , like I need to just like lay here because I was like, so like emotional. I was like on emotional high and I was like, I just like, I feel like honestly, like when I talk about it, I still like feel same like high from that.

That whole night was wonderful. It's amazing. Yeah. It's so exciting. Oh, you're doing amazing things. Oh, thank you. You that. Oh my gosh, I wish I could have heard this before we went into our first audition and hope that helps other parents that are Yeah, well, I mean, that's kind of why we talked about, you know, starting the drama Mamas even, you know, six, eight months ago or whatever.

It was like all of the things that we wish we would've known before we went in, um, to our first audition or even our, our 10th. You know, knowing what we know now and there's still that much more stuff that we have to learn and we're very appreciative of you coming on the show to like, talk with us about that and help share that knowledge because it's so important, you know?

It is. And you know, and there's, I feel like there's not enough resources out there like to that, to like prepare you, you know? And um, I feel like we need to do some like audition workshops or something, um, to give people even more help and Oh, that would fantastic. And more direction with these kinds of things.

Cuz I mean, truly like, just picking a song can make or break your whole experience, you know? Yeah. Well it's a workshop for the kids or workshop for the parents too, because, you know, we're the ones that are supposed to be kind leading the way. And the kids looked to us like we know everything, which Luis, we don't, there's no handbook.

Not they went to at, in your auditioning book, , maybe like the auditions for Dummies or something. . Yes, absolutely. That would be fantastic. I know, and Gabs had one of her auditions. I don't know. Third show or whatever. I think we decided it was miracle. I'm not a hundred percent sure. But anyway, um, she came out and I was like, how'd it go?

And she's like, well, she had me like start and then, you know, had to stop and start over again. And I'm like, oh, okay, well did you like, did you miss a word? She's like, no, but she asked me who prepared me, and I was like, did you tell her it was your mom or doesn't know anything about anything? She's like, I told her it was my mom that did it, and she just smiled.

And I was like, okay. So, you know, clearly I didn't know what I was doing, but you know what, in that moment, I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't, I was in that show, but I wasn't a part of that team. Yeah. In that moment it could have been that she did a really great job and they were just wondering if she had a voice teacher and like, because whoever the pianist was for that like, is.

You know, friends with a lot of people in our community and wanted to know like, oh, is this so and so's student? Or like, you know, like, oh I need, they were really great. I want to tell them like that their student did a good job. It could have been something like that. And not even like, it was horrible.

Your mom helped you good because she got the part. She could have just been like it amazing, but it easily could have just been like something, a situation like that where they're like, you know, cuz we, especially in our community, like a lot of us work in the same circles. So we know everybody we know, you know, like I know a lot of other, um, voice teachers, I know their students, they know mine.

Like we all like work in these same circles. So it really could have just been that she was just wondering who, if she took voice lessons and with who and if she knew her teacher or whatever. Cuz she was impressed. Maybe she was, yeah. I took it like, oh great, the other way I'm so

Of course we take it negatively. Of course we do. That's what we do. Yeah. I think it is human. Oh, you just kind of go that direction at first. But yeah, it's funny. I mean, these kids. They, they're stuck with us. Yeah. Just the blind leading the blind. Yeah, exactly. They are, they are. We'll help you through it.

We know and you have so much already. We're so incredibly close. But like I started, I mean, I started out completely clueless too. I mean like my, like I said at the beginning, like my parents put me in all sports camp. Like, I mean, I did golf camp, I did swimming camp. I did, I did cooking camp. I did, but there were signs all along the way, right?

The whole time I'm giving them all the signs that like, I am not supposed to be a soccer today. I am supposed to be singing. I'm like, we had, like, we got a new refrigerator one time and I took the cardboard box and like turned it into a set. Like I painted it and like decorated it and then put on a performance on the driveway.

And I'm like, still no theater camp, you know? But like my mom was an athlete, so she didn't know, like, she didn't even know the theater. She didn't, I mean, my dad sings and, and I've been really blessed and fortunate to be able to perform with him a few times, but, um, and hopefully more in the future. I mean, uh, that's really special when you get to do that.

But, um, but still he didn't know. He, you know, he sang in the church choir and, and stuff, but, um, he just, he didn't know that it existed. And so I never did theater camp. So when I went, um, I, you know, I did Cinderella, which was at my school, you know, I did Cinderella and then I, the right after that, I, I went and auditioned for when be, uh, we did Beauty the Beast the first time, and I had a callback for a silly girl.

Well, I'd never done a cold read before. Never. And I was sick. I had h I was really sick. And I, and I just was like, I'd say the line, and then I'd be like, ha, . Like, I would just like laugh at myself. Like say the, I get, you know what I, so I was completely clueless when I started too. And I mean, even like, I think back cuz I auditioned for the Perform Arts high school and I didn't get in and I um, which we can talk about that another bit, , but um, there's probably still some bitterness in here's I teach there so are anyway.

Um, but like I think back to that audition cuz. How did you not get in Jordan? Like what did you, what did you do in that audition? And I think about it and I'm like, well, I sang a song from Cinderella because that's all I had done at that point. And so I sang a song from Cinderella and then I was like, I think back on it and I'm like, did I do my full blocking that I had done in the show was I the 2, 4, 6, 8 indicate, indicate, you know what I mean?

Overacting the whole blocking with my invisible broom and stuff. You know, like, did I do that? Is that why I did get in, I think back on it. But I was completely clueless too, like, until I, you know, um, went to the other high school and then started doing show choir and all the shows and stuff. And then I just grew and learn.

And then you learn so much when you, you know, get a BFA in musical theater and in college and stuff. But I mean, we all kind of start. In that same, I mean, unless, I guess, unless you have like a, a parent who like did Broadway for a living or you know, went to school for musical theater or something like that.

Like you all kind of start in that same boat of ha I like this. How do I do that? You know? Right. How do we get there? Yeah. How do we do it? And that's part of what our platform is all about. You know, how do they educate and promote music? Well, we can see that our kids have glitter in their veins. Oh, absolutely.

You know, we understand that's where they need to be, but we don't know how to get 'em there. Right. We're trying. Yeah. And you said something that brought up another question I have. Like, what do you do? Cuz I'm facing this today. When your child is sick and they have an audition, um, they always say like, don't tell the director that you're sick because nine times outta 10 we can tell that you're sick.

Right. When you come in the room, we can hear the congestion in your voice or, you know, um, we can hear if it's scratchy or raspy or whatever. Um, so you don't have. Tell them, they'll take that into consideration. I mean, they'll know like when you walk in the door that you're sick. But I mean, just doing all the things.

So all the things that we always do with the, the tea and the honey and, um, rest, vocal rest. I mean, if you've got a raspy voice, just total silence. I mean, no. And whisperings the worst thing you can do, right? That's cuz then you're really, now we're gonna get vocal pedagogy going, here we go . And I know what that word means now that though, cause I didn't know that.

Yeah. Whisperings the worst it is, you're not, um, sending. Breath through the cords to make them vibrated the, the correct frequency. It gets really sciency here, but , no, that's okay. It's like the worst thing you could do. You wanna fully support your voice. Um, so like if you're raspy, just silences nothing.

So all or nothing. Yeah, like silence or, or fully support your voice, but I mean, just like steaming and, um, you know, gurgle salt water for your throat. Like, you know, like all that kind of stuff, um, that you would normally do if you're sick. It's the same thing as a singer. Okay. That, yeah. Right. I mean, if you have time to prepare, then maybe you can pick a different audition cut that maybe is a little lower and a little more obtainable or something that, you know, you can still go in and do.

But if not, just go for it. Go for it. Smile through it. Yeah, those handheld humidifiers are fantastic. Oh yeah. Yeah. I saw somebody at the theater in the last show, um, I was kind of backstage for, and they were feeling kind of under the weather and they'd gotten one of those and they talked about how great it was for them and it was really helping.

I had no idea. Yeah, you can get 'em right at CVS or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. They have like different tiers. Some are better than others and some are more expensive than others buy a lot. But yeah, we do. Um, like the thieves cough drops. Mm-hmm. , I get 'em off of Amazon. And yeah, pinky seems to like swear by those.

There's like those gummies. Oh yeah. What are those called? Grether? Past stills. I don't know. Something like that. Something like, I can't remember the exact ation. You can get 'em on Amazon. Yeah. Um, but those were great. Those got me through Sister Act, but yeah. And the thieves cough drops got me through miracle.

So Sick, sick, miracle. Sick. I was so sick. That's right. And I had to sing all those high seed. Oh, that's right. Yeah. We were kind put onto the, the, um, the drops or whatever. And those didn't go over quite as well as the actual cough drops had done. The thieves cough drops are great. The sprays good too. Yeah.

That blue stuff, I forget what that was called now. I can't remember. Somebody when we were over at Warner Haven doing a show over there had put us on that. And um, I love those, those little gummy things. Yeah. But also just like gummy bears are good. You just suck on those. The glycine coats reports the g That's why, that's why there's always, uh, gummy bears before the show.

Everybody that, but there's like the specific ones, like, it's not like go get the ones or whatever. You gotta get the good kind of target the, I think you can get 'em everywhere, but I just always get 'em myself. Is it the HaBO ones? No, no, no. Those are the ones that give you the poops. These are the the red and white.

Red and white bag. Oh yeah. I dunno. They have like marshals Cat checkout a it starts the day. It's a white bag. Yep. I know exactly where you're talking. Okay. We'll be stopping on the way today. You should have seen Backstage during, um, mama Mia. We people, we had the, we had the trap Verna back there, you know, the, where the pit course would sing and stuff and where everybody would sing when they were on stage.

And um, we had like a snack box over there. Like we just turned it into a whole clubhouse. That's awesome. And I put decorations up. It was really fun. But anyway, um, We, I, everybody would bring in stuff to contribute to the snack box back there. Uh, and it was, uh, we, I, I can't remember how many, but people brought in those, the bigger bags of those gummy bears, and I, by the end of it, we took a picture.

Uh, cuz we kept all the bags, so we were like, maybe we can send it to the company and they'll like sponsor us or something. Like spent bags and empty the empty bag. We took a picture of all the empty bags of those gummy bears and we were like, maybe we could send it and get sponsored and they'll send us for gummy bears,

I, if they even know that you guys use it like that. I don't know, but I, you know, I don't, can't hurt Tom. I tell our producer, I think I might have actually, and like let him know, like, There's a hidden use for these you may not be on. And it was like I, that was a three weekend run of that show, I think. I can't can't even remember that.

It was a big summer show. It was a stack of, and not, not the little bag, it was the big bags. , the fives. Yeah, handfuls, I'm sure were, we went through some gummy bears for sure. Wow. Yeah. That's interesting. Cool. All these tricks to the trade, you know, and there's the, there's that drink. You gotta get that drink on the way out.

Yeah. That medicine ball. Yeah, medicine ball. Which, explain that to our listeners and what that is. Oh, I didn't even know about it until I was in grad school and I would hear like the other music theater people or the vocalist talking about, oh, you gotta get the medicine ball from Starbucks. And I think what it is, is the, it's.

Honey citrus mint tea or something like that. But they do it with steamed lemonade instead of water. And so then you have the lemon that cuts through, you know? Mm-hmm. , and then you add honey and a shot of peppermint. Ooh. And so it's a weird concoction. That smells weird. It tastes weird, but it like just soothes everything in here.

Yeah. We're gonna the get that on the way out. That's great. Go get some gummies and a Yeah. Sometimes they, if you just order a medicine ball, they know exactly what it is and they make it for you. But sometimes you have to be like, you have to like tell 'em the steps. This one with this in. Yeah. But like at school, we had a Starbucks on campus and like we would just all roll through, give a medicine ball and they just rip them up.

like, right. Yep. Oh, that's great. All right. Well you have been amazing, but we have a couple questions we wanna ask before we wrap up some guest questions. Yes. First of all, is this like rapid fire? No, no, no. It's . Now that we know or we know about you, but others know about you, what is your dream role? I feel like I have a couple for like different reasons.

That's okay. But, um, My number one dream role is, um, mother in rag time that is, uh, up there in my like top favorite shows. And I, I just, I love that character. I love that show. I, um, that is my dream role. Um, probably more so than others. Like that is the top. Um, but also I really love, um, this, the new Broadway revival of company.

They, they ginger swapped. Mm-hmm. some of the characters and to play Bobby and that would be so incredible as well. And that's, that's Stephen Sonai music, which is amazing. Um, but also I. I'm not old enough yet, but I would love to play, um, Francesca in Bridges, Madison County. That music is just, that score is so beautiful.

Um, I don't know. Yeah, those are all like more serious. I tend to play funny, but I'm like, let me play something serious. I dunno. Okay. So we did, I always loved when we would do like themes for mic check and my, one of my favorite ones was, um, like a role that you'll never have. Sing something from that. You remember when we did that Uhhuh, it was like during Beauty and the Beast might.

They like a performance in themselves. I know there might be great. Amazing. I'm sure anybody that watched that would know was my favorite moment, um, that nobody saw except for the cast. Yeah. Um, so what's a role that you wish and, you know, you'd never have, but it like, tops that list? I always say this, I don't know why, but I would love to be Roger and Ren

I dunno why it's like so different than who I am with the person. I don't know. I'm just like, and well, maybe that's the truth. I don't know, like sing like one song, glory and anyway, but Roger and Ren, but that's like my funny one. But I would also, um, like something like one of those iconic male roles like, uh, um, like John Valon and Layman's or, um, like George and Sunny in the park with George or any, any of those would be really pretty cool.

But that'll never happen unless the Ginger Swap company happen. I mean, sometimes it can't happen, but maybe it could. Yeah. I don't, I don't see me playing Roger. Right. . I think Jordan, I think one of your most awesome qualities that you bring, and I pray that people not only listen to us, but they get to like video and, and they're watching us, is when you are talking about theater and you're talking about these kids, gosh, it makes me like a little teary.

You just exude this like passion hand. Mm-hmm. . Oh my gosh. It's just wonderful. And it's t. Yeah. And you bring that. Love it. You know, when you're at the theater and you're with the kids and you're doing what you're doing, you can totally tell you're doing what you love and that's how you know you're doing the right thing.

Yeah. So I always tell people, I'm like, I, I, I have the best job. I mean, I really, I really do feel like I do have the best job. I, well, and, and no day is the same. I see different kids every day. I, I teach different classes every day. And so it keeps it fresh and exciting. And there's always a new show.

There's always something new to work on. And, um, there's always new kids who audition and you, and you meet new people and like you, you create this theater family, and it's just, I, I just love it so much. It is my whole world. Oh, well we can tell that. And we are so honored to be part of that world. Oh yeah, definitely.

So, yeah. So, you know, okay. What's the next one? We've. What's an embarrassing moment, an embarrassing theater moment, like on stage or auditioning or something? Um,

So my, my senior year of high school, uh, we were doing Footloose mm-hmm. , and I was, I was playing rusty and I have, I have a lot of hair and they, um, this has nothing to do with it, but I have a lot of hair and, and they, it was just as, Then as it is now, and they, um, they, this has nothing to do with, what am I talking, , but they made me sleep into like sponge rollers and then we picked my hair out, so I had like the full like eighties big hair.

Yeah. Anyway, so I was rusty of, you know, is like over the top energy. So fun. And, and I, my hair was just as big as my, like your personality was the character, you know? And, um, I had a quick change and I ran off stage, did the quick change, and then was running back onto the stage. Like I ran off, changed into my little cheerleading outfit, grabbed my textbooks.

It was like a hallway scene. and was running back onto the stage, like just running on to get on the stage and some little freshman or somebody was not where they were supposed to be and they were sitting in the wing and I didn't even see them. Like I was running to get to make my entrance cuz I was like supposed to be skipping on with my textbooks and they were sitting in the wing and I just ate it.

I mean, I literally, I fell onto the stage. Oh my, I fell onto the stage. There was like set pieces in the wings too. And then you hear it was like the, the bar table from the burger blast or whatever and all those bar stools you hear and I am face planning onto the stage and the textbooks go flying. I just picked up my books and just kept on skipping , like it was part of us.

It just kept going. But that was, uh, that was pretty, pretty embarrassing when I did Cinderella. Um, I had a quick change into the wedding dress from the rags, the wedding dress at the end of the show. And, uh, I actually wore my mom's, uh, wedding dress from the nineties. Oh, that's cool. And so, I mean, it was probably not period appropriate, but like, um, I was in my mom's big poofy sleeve, uh, wedding dress.

And um, and when I ran off, they, they went to like pull it together in the back to zip it and the zipper like went, oh, like they do. And so I did the whole wedding with my whole back out, like of the dress. Oh. And of course I was like, when I was in middle school, I was like so embarrassed and I was like, oh my God, have we got, and so somebody said, um,

Well, it certainly looked like Cinderella did not want to bury the Prince . I guess I was not covering it well, but my whole, my whole back was open. That was a costume happened. But I, I'm trying to think. I'm sure there's so many more stories. Well, you're gonna be back so you can tell us more. I have to think of something.

Think about it. Yeah. But absolutely. Okay. Um, I'm gonna jump to the question that I had that got added to this list. Uh, have you earned any nicknames in the theater and how did you get 'em? I do have a nickname, . Um, so, uh, well, Ms. Jordan is my number one nickname, right? Yes. Everybody tells you Jordan. But, um, so I was doing my first show at the theater and, uh, uh, we, I was a new kid, right?

So I didn't, I didn't really know anyone and like I, um, I didn't really talk to anyone cuz I. The new person in the cast and everything. And so it was tech week and we were figuring out, oh, it's Chicago, right? We were doing Chicago and, uh, I was one of the Mary murders and that, and we were figuring out where the ensemble we were gonna stand, like in the bandstand of the set during the big courtroom scene at the end.

And our, our assistant choreographer at the time, he, uh, he's, he's kind of jerk . He, uh, but he's not around anymore, so it's ok. It's ok, it's ok. Um, actually, I, I, like, I don't, I have no idea where he is in life, but anyways, so he was kind of a jerk and he would always mix people's names up and, and just didn't, I don't think he really cared to learn anyone's names.

Mm-hmm. , this is the only time I've had an experience like this, um, in this area. But, um, but anyway, , uh, he looked at me to tell me to go stand somewhere and he went. Trudy . Oh no. And he called me Trudy. Yeah. And, and like I didn't know anyone in this cast, but they all knew my name was not Trudy. And so everybody like turns and they were like looking at me and I was like, me?

And he was like, yeah, yeah, Trudy, go stand over there, . And he was like, so then like the whole cast just started calling me Trudy. And like now, now, like, you know, a lot of those people aren't around anymore, but the people who are still around from, that was 2012. So it's been like 10 years. Like 10 years later, the people that are still around still call me Trudy.

And then it's like, it's like caught on. And like other people who weren't even involved in that call me Trudy. And so, you know, I would go, I went to a New Year's party. and I had never met the person I was going with. I was, who was hosting the party. I was going with someone to this party and I show up and they're like, oh my God, you're Trudy.

And I'm like, that's me. You know? Or like, now that my dad does stuff at the theater, they're always like, you're Trudy's dad. You know? It's like, oh my God. So yeah. Trudy, that's really funny. It has, I don't know how you get Trudy from Jordan, but, um, it works. Wow. And my kindergarten class right now, they're all calling me Miss Abigail.

A Abigail. And I dunno, why, where you come from? I dunno why. And I like, they're like five. So I don't have the heart to be like, if. Jordan . Totally different. Like, but I have no idea why I miss Abigail to my kindergarten class, so I guess maybe we can count that as a nickname. Sure. Yeah. No, my kindergarten alter ego is Miss Abigail.

I probably even storybook or something. I have no idea. I know, it's kind funny. Probably should wrap up, you think? Oh, maybe. Yeah. Yeah, we can, unless Jordan, do you have any questions for us or, Ooh, anything that like you wanna turn that around? Oh dear. I dunno. I know that could be fun. Or you know, cuz we're still kind of new on our like any advice?

Yeah, any advice or any topics that you would like to hear us talk about or anything that you think is fitting? I don't know. I totally just sprung that on you. I think you guys are doing a great job with this. I really do. I, um, I think it's really beneficial and, and informative, um, for our community and for other parents and kids that are trying to get involved.

Um, no, I just think I, I'm really excited about this for you guys and, uh, I think there's great things ahead. I just, I don't know. I feel, feel really good about it. We're so grateful that you came on today. Absolutely. And for your dad to like, be sitting in that, we went and got lunch or whatever with you and, and he came and him sitting at the end of the tables.

We all just kind of bantered together and you were part of that. Mm-hmm. and him to just sit back and go. Y'all, this should be a podcast. And after six or eight months of us going, yeah, we should do that, it was kind of like light in a fire. So it's, it's your whole family, honestly just like propels us forward in so many ways.

And we're so grateful for that. I are. Yeah. My dad's pretty cool. He is pretty kinda like him. He's grateful. My mom's cool too. She's just not into theater. , my mom and my brother are not, uh, they'll, they'll come and support. Yes, they do. They're, it's not, it's not a thing thing. They're like, they would much rather be at the Gator game.

Right. You know, which I enjoy that too, but, uh, they, they're much more into sports. for the beach. My mom likes the Yeah, she does like the beach, that's for sure. Hey, can't blame her. That's a good thing too, you know? Yeah. It's one of those four things. It's all good. I don't know, I don't think I have any questions.

Well, that's okay. I'm thinking we should Coming back. You're back. Yeah, exactly. Oh yeah. I'm happy to come back. This is fun. This is great. Thank you so much. Listen to me rant, develop. I know it's wonderful. And how much I love theater, . Yeah, that's great. Oh, and we can't wait to have you on again for kind of the next Picking your brain session.

Yeah. Happy. Cause we stayed pretty focused on this one, but you have a very diverse theater background and experience, so like to draw on. So like yeah. So many other topics. So many questions for you about other topics. Yeah, we can just away. Yeah. Open book we love. Well we should thank our listeners for Absolutely.

You know, checking us out. Yeah. We heard from some of you last night at Mary Poppins. Yes, we did. Super encouraging and we loved it and gave our family, so thank you everyone. Yeah. And, um, thank our production team. Yeah. Go Chris. Go Chris. Chris and all his social media assistance too. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Um, but find us on, uh, the Drama Mama Show online and.

We will check you out on the next one.

We forgot to introduce ourselves. Ah, crap. Let's start over. I'm Angela . Yeah, we forget to do that. I mean, I don't know how many, like, I'm curious how many people actually watch the podcast versus how many listen to it. Cause like, you know, I think a lot of our, I'm not a big podcast listener, but like, I think a lot of our experience has been, that's all I listen to when I'm driving in the car.

I'm like listening to it there. So like, you don't watch, you shouldn't watch anyway while you drive. No, you shouldn't. I listen to a ton of podcasts. I, I mean, I think it's because I'm so surrounded by music all day long, like with teaching voice and everything, I, I like sit in the car, I drive in either silence, which is totally lame.

Or I like listen to podcasts because I'm like, I just need a break from music. What kind of podcast do you listen to? Oh, dear , are you murder people? No, no, no, no, no. Im, wait, what is that? I'm like, I, I love The Bachelor. Bachelor. Oh my gosh. Bachelor Paradise. And they love, they have so many, like Nick Vi. Yeah.

I, I listen podcast. Oh yes. The vi party. Almost famous. I listen to all of them and they're all like recaps of the episode that I already watched. You know, that's so much fun. Cathy and I really are interested. I have never seen the show. You also like get Behind. I've seen stuff of like how the product, how, like how going into filming a show like that works and uh, It's true.

And they just unpack everything that had happened at. Oh, okay. So they, I dunno how you feel. Talk about their thoughts about Yes. Some event or whatever. So let's say it's like an hour long, whatever episode you're watching and so much, you know how reality TV is, they jam so much at you, you know, and they edit stuff and they cut stuff and whatever, and they pretty much gear what they want you to, to see, right?

Mm-hmm. . So, but then in these podcasts, they just pick it all apart and they're like, well, what'd you think about this person? What'd you think about that person? I really thought this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or they'll be like, well, you know, they filmed for how many hours a day, but then you only see the one hour of the TV show Uhhuh, so you're missing so much.

And so that the context and stuff, so they kind of put in a little bit more context to it, and it kind of can change your, your opinion on some of these characters that they're trying to paint as a villain or whatever. Mm-hmm. sometimes they're really not, they're just, were set up in a way, you know?

Anyway, we and Kathy could talk about.